Attempts by christian groups to have prayers reintroduced in schools is in direct violation of the teachings of the bible. It goes directly against the god they are supposed to be praying to.
In Matthew 6:5-6 jesus said "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret."
This verse is telling christians, In no uncertain terms, That prayer should be something done in private. It is NOT something you should do in public or around others.
So why do so many christians flat out disobey this order and insist on praying in public? It's because deep down they don't really believe this shit any more than i do. They know it's not the word of god. Because if they did believe it, They would go out of their way to make sure they followed every aspect of it to a tee. After all, Who would want to piss of that mental case.
Most Christians have never heard of that verse, and the ones that have are unable to take it to heart because hypocritical showboating is so much more satisfying than having a little humility.
ReplyDeleteMost Christian's haven't read the bible at all. they only hear what their pastor of priest reads to them in church, and since praying in church is praying in public, the pastor/priest probably leaves that verse out.
ReplyDeleteYeah, once again even those who profess to "know their bible" usually only know the current interpretation of the "important bits" by their particular church. This particular verse may have been useful sometime in the past, but no longer. Currently it is a much better idea for christianity to enforce prayer on all children. Same old cherry-picking, nothing new here.
ReplyDeleteThe Matthew verse referenced was not intended to simply state the "location" of where one is to pray to God. It references the level of sincerity one should have when one prays. In other words, making sure one is widely seen in the act of boldly praying is not what prayer is about.
ReplyDeletePrayer is a pure, private and direct communication between an individual and God. This can be done in a group setting with like thinkers or alone in a room with a shut door ...as long as you are sincere and not just after attention or publicity.
A good example would be a politician who makes sure s/he is captured on camera when praying to God in order to gain more votes come election day. This person may indeed get more votes ...but s/he is not "praying". It's merely a photo-op. Furthermore, a politician may secretly pray to God in a well-attended church setting or behind closed doors unnoticed by others and not gain a single vote as a result, but s/he is genuinely praying ...and that's what God desires out of us.
You can get a lot more out of what these Bible verses are designed to convey if you dig a little deeper into their meanings. Go below the surface. It is the ultimate quest for sincerity and Truth found in these verses. In this particular "Matthew verse" case, it deals with a person's sincerity in prayer and not just the location. ..and that, my atheist friends, is the God's honest Truth!
Since atheist like to use logic and reasoning so much: Scientists see the surface of an icy planet like Venus or a scorching hot planet like Mars through a telescope and say "Logically there can be no life on these planets". However, when they dig a little deeper below the surfaces of these planets suddenly there might be underground canals of ground water or bacteria held deep within the ice ...life where none was expected!
So why don't atheists dig a little deeper below the surface of these Bible verses like scientists do with the surfaces of planets? There might be life below the surface?
...Wouldn't that be the logical thing to do?
Birdman, you still don't answer the main question of why theists push for prayer in schools. If it is a required moment in the school day, then the child is not necessarily "genuinely" praying. He may be doing it because he may be made fun of by his friends if he doesn't. Which would qualify as "not praying" according to you. Children have all the time before school, after school, and on the weekends to pray. They can also pray at lunchtime, right before class starts, or between classes or on the bus to/from school. There is no need for educational time eaten away by "voluntary" prayer or moments of silence.
ReplyDeletebirdman,
ReplyDelete"digging a little deeper" as you call it appears to be what people usually refer to as interpretation. This is not logic or necessarily logical. You get that interpretation from that verse but that is hardly the only interpretation you can get from it (as is obvious from Matt's post). You are essentially just saying that we aren't reading the bible correctly, or that this is a deliberate misunderstanding or not enough attention has been paid to find the "True" meaning of the bible. The "True" meaning of the bible and of christianity itself changes from generation to generation so to say that your interpretation is the right one and another person's wrong is a dangerous claim.
Also as for comparing the bible to an unexplored planet, you really have to weigh up the benefits of digging deeper, a lot more can be learned by exploring unknown worlds than by ancient myths. I'd suggest the bible has been plundered barren for meaning by now anyway.
Cindy:
ReplyDeleteIt is not a push to put prayer in schools. Its more an attempt to keep it from being removed. Many feel that the spirit is just as important as the brain.
Oblivious:
In Matt:16 we find: "Ye shall know them by their fruits".
You can take this statement two ways; literally and figuratively.
Figuratively:
this statements means that one can gage another's level of truthfulness by how they live their life. I.e., A church's Pastor who gets drunk and smokes weed dictating to the congregation about morals or a prostitute who professes to girls about the importance of chastity and monogamy. ...Neither is living the life they preach.
Literally:
One can really know someone by what type of fruits they eat.
Several years ago I visited Hawaii, and saw a wonderful comic. It showed a smoking volcano looming over a school, and the caption was something like, "Why is Joe praying to Pele? How's she gonna help him with a science test?" Back here on the U.S. mainland, I doubt any exam is given in any school without at least one student praying for a fire drill. :-)
ReplyDeleteThat said, prayer has always been, for some people, a public act intended to demonstrate their piety... but not always. I once read (damned if I know where, so no reference) that the Roman citizens' biggest problem with Christians in the early centuries of the current era was that they refused to pray publicly to the town deity. For those people, public prayer was an absolute necessity. If the local deity didn't see everyone saying the appropriate prayers in public at the appropriate times, s/he might decide the town wasn't worth bothering about. Then crops would fail, wells would go dry, and people would be in terrible straits!
(At least the Roman deities were polite and didn't go snooping into people's private lives, the way the Christian deity is said to do.)
"This verse is telling christians, In no uncertain terms, That prayer should be something done in private. It is NOT something you should do in public or around others."
ReplyDeleteSo very not true! What you've done here, (and what many Christians are guilty of too) is taken the verse out of its context.
What the hypocrites are guilty of is loving to pray publically so that they can be SEEN. It's trying to appear more pious than you are.
St. Macarius of Egypt is quoted as saying in the 4th century: "If you love the glories of men, and desire to be worshipped, and seek comfort, you are going off the path..."
So as to the original question (which wasn't why theist push for prayer in school Cindy, but rather why Christians disobey this order) the answer is that we're not, because that's not what the verse is saying. Public prayer has been a large part of the Christian life since the first century (prayer in Church is considered public prayer).
As for trying to force prayer in school, I don't think that that is necessarily right. We should be respectful of those who aren't of the same faith, though in the same manner I think others need to be respectful of ours as well.
Maybe instead they should be trying to have a "quiet time" or something... so that those who'd like to pray can pray, and those who don't can do the homework they didn't do the night before :P
you are all dimb for agreeing with this moron. when jesus said this he meant that you should not show boat in public about your praying.for if you do this you are not praying for God you are praying for yourself. yet as to the person who prays in private isnt worried aout anyone else but God when he is praying. In the bible it does not sayb that if you want to pray in public you cant it is saying if you pray in public do it to the glory of god not yourself.
ReplyDeletethis verse is talking about how u pray not the place you pray at. it is talking about how sincer you are when you do it. Verse 6:1 says "Be careful not do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, TO BE SEEN BY THEM. if you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. See it just says not to do it to be seen.
ReplyDeleteSeems to me this is all for not. You have basically skipped the meaning of prayer. If a team wants a prayer before a game for good luck or safety in the game. You are banning it? Maybe you don't need to show off but some parts of praying are open.
ReplyDeleteWe all talk to God ( except athesit who don't believe in him) in our own ways. I find it very heart breaking that most of you don't want to give God the glory he deserves!!!!!
Birdman said, "Prayer is a pure, private and direct communication between an individual and God. This can be done in a group setting with like thinkers or alone in a room with a shut door ...as long as you are sincere and not just after attention or publicity."
ReplyDeleteHow can this be? This is a contradiction. A pure, private and direct communication cannot be done in a group setting. If you have a minister of priest saying something aloud that is his prayer (becomes yours even if you just listen) therefore cannot be private. Saying in private or public "God help me pass this test" or "God Bless this or that", is wishful thinking and not prayer. The only prayer necessary is the Lord's Prayer. It is not necessary to repeat it aloud (Public Prayer) or even just think it (say it to yourself). Just believe it. Prayer is a state of mind. It is to be done always.