The religious are brainwashed in to this idea that morality, A sense of right and wrong, Can only be known through their religion and their god. But if you only do good things because of a fear of punishment and hope of a reward, How moral can you be? If you are bribed and coerced in to behaving a certain way how much personal credit can you take for your actions? And what would you do if you weren't bribed and coerced?
In the christian model, Morality is nothing more than fear, The controlling force of christians and children alike. The church doesn't teach compassion, It doesn't teach empathy, It teaches fear. It doesn't tell you why you should do good, Only what will happen if you don't.
I'm not saying that "morality" doesn't exist, I'm saying it isn't the result of a god and it certainly isn't the result of christian teachings. Are we to assume that before mosses came down with the ten commandments people thought it was ok to steal, murder and rape? Are we to assume that before jesus' teachings people lacked compassion? we only have to reference the story of the good Samaritan, A story jesus told, To see that people had a sense of decency and compassion long before jesus.
So if we remove the god controlling aspect of morality, If we remove the fear aspect of morality we are left with religious people doing good for the same reason as atheists. And if they wouldn't do good without the threat of punishment and the hope of a reward we are left with compassionate atheists doing good and psychopathic religious people forced into not doing bad through fear.
You have no clue what Christianity is about. You really should investigate an issue before you presume to speak authoritatively on it. There is no fear of punishment of hope of reward in Christian morality. It is only when one understands there is no punishment or reward based on our actions but rather on Christ's actions in our stead that one can truly begin to act in a moral fashion.
ReplyDeleteYour uninformed criticisms are laughable. If you presumed to criticize Quantum Theory without investigating it no one would take you seriously. The only reason people are taking you seriously here is because they have the same interest at heart. None of you want there to be a God so you mock him and hope for affirmation. You are in my prayers and please do research before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
In Christ
Alan
So christianity doesn't say you go to hell for doing bad things and heaven for doing good things? I think it's you who needs to research it.
ReplyDeleteSo christianity doesn't say you go to hell for doing bad things and heaven for doing good things?
ReplyDeleteI don't think he is saying that so much as he is saying "christians do moral things because they want to, just like any self respecting person, not because they fear punishment or want a reward.
I am saying that no one goes to heaven for doing good things. Everyone, including Christians, is a sinner and deserves to go to hell. However because God took on flesh in Christ, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross, those who repent and have faith in Christ go to heaven not based on anything within them but on Christ's merit alone. This is what true Christianity teaches and has always taught.
ReplyDeleteAh, it's always good to have a True Christian(TM)stop by and point out to us heathens how all the other Christians are doing it wrong.
ReplyDeleteSorry Alan, but there are denominations who do preach that acts are necessary and there is indeed punishment and reward to fear or look forward to.
I can understand why you would choose to believe in a particular brand that says Christ's sacrifice washed your sin away, and all you have to do is repent and have faith. Frankly, I don't see why all the Christians don't jump on that bandwagon. But that would put to rest all that delicious infighting, wouldn't it?
None of us wants a god? I think a god might be a handy thing to have.
But a nice one. Not a bloodthirsty prick, like the one in the Bible.
I was not pointing out that all the other Christians "are doing it wrong." I was pointing out the fact that Matt is wrong. No Christian believes the threat/reward motif you all are suggesting. There may be people who believe that, but they are not Christian and no true denomination teaches that either. If I could choose a god I would not pick the God of the Bible either, fortunately for me He did not give me that choice and saved me in spite of me.
ReplyDeleteWell,then.
ReplyDeleteI'll be sure to tell the folks I know who believe this way that ALAN says they aren't Christians, and since you are the authority on the subject, I'm sure they'll whole-heardedly agree with you.
You can tell them that it is because the Bible says so they are not Christians. It does not matter what I say, it matters what the word of God says.
ReplyDeleteThey read the Bible too, and interpret it in their own way. That is the problem with the Bible. It can be interpreted in as many ways as there are readers. And who is to say who is correct?
ReplyDeleteHermeneutics is both an art and a science. There are specific rules involved and the more one does it the better one gets. Just because many people interpret the Bible incorrectly does not mean there is not a correct interpretation, there is and anyone who interprets the Bible in a way where they are rewarded for their actions is interpreting it incorrectly.
ReplyDeleteaccording to who alan?
ReplyDeletealso youre claiming that i could get into heaven based on JC's merit alone.
So you dont get into heaven based on your own actions as a person?
thats kinda weird.
and your inability to recognise that there ARE many different interpretations/factions (all claiming to be correct)kinda highlights the fact that your claims of superior knowledge (hey - im sure that fits into one of the deadly sins,?) are hollow and wont hold a drop of water.
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ReplyDeleteIt my seem "weird" to you but that is because you do not know what the Bible says. It is always dangerous to speak from ignorance.
ReplyDelete"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version., Eph 2:8-9 (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001).
The Bible does not leave room for "interpretation" here, it is clear.
I do recognize there are different interpretations, however, that does not make them valid. Your argumentative skills leave much to be desired, telling me my views do not hold water does not make it so and is just purely an ad hominem attack.
ReplyDeleteMakes you wonder why god would write something so open to interpretation if there is no room for interpretation.
ReplyDeleteMakes me think that if god did write it he must be an incompetent imbecile.
"43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
ReplyDeleteThe Holy Bible : English Standard Version., Jn 8:43-47 (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001).
So, wouldn't I (an atheist) be going to heaven as well, since I play no part in where I would go after death?
ReplyDeleteJust to show that there are other Christians who Do have other interpretations, I offer this quote from another blog (PZMyers evolution blog):
ReplyDeleteWe'll ignore the fact that one's Christianity is not to be judged on the basis of the claim, or even on the sincerity of the claim. Forget that there is only one way that scripture says to judge the credibility of someone claiming to be a Christian--by their works.