Atheism is often called a "belief" or "religion" by those wishing to drag us down to their level, But nothing could be further from the truth. Atheism is the default state of all human beings. It takes no action on the part of the person to be Atheist. Atheist is what we would all be if there were no vile old men moulding childrens minds to suite their agenda, or moronic parents inflicting their own stupidity on their children.
A child who has not been subjected to the abuse that is religious indoctrination would be an Atheist. They wouldn't all of a sudden decide that there is a god and that 2000 years ago he sent his son to live as a human, have him murdered for sins we haven't yet committed, Bring him back to life and take him back to heaven unless they are told it by someone.
But a lot of people do end up believing exactly that. Do they believe this because of reason or evidence? No, They believe it because that is what they have been told. If as an adult they stumbled across the bible in a book shop would they come to the conclusion after reading it that it makes sense and must be true if they hadn't already been told from birth that they are a christian, or told that they live in a christian nation? Highly unlikely, Unless they are mentally ill, In which case they may also believe they are Admiral Nelson.
Hopefully now you will see how theism requires not only a belief in a god, But it also requires a society or parents to convince you of a specific god and it needs to convince you that they know what he wants.
Nobody needs to be convinced to be an Atheist. A disbelief in a god is a natural as a disbelief in any mythical monster. Theism however requires you to be convinced of something you have been told.
Really love the site! Been looking at a lot of great atheist sites and of course giving shameless plugs to my own.
ReplyDeletehtt://crazychristianblog.blogspot.com/
Nobody needs to be convinced to be an Atheist. A disbelief in a god is a natural as a disbelief in any mythical monster.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you on this point, matt. Were you ever afraid of a monster in your closet, or under the bed? I am sure. Most, if not all, children believe this. The actual state is to believe in something, not to disbelieve.
Also, if nobody needs to be convinced and it appears to be so obvious that there is no God, why did you create this site? You created it to make others BELIEVE that there is no god. Weather this believe is true of false, I cannot say. I believe it is false, but according to your messed up world view, anyone who believes in an all powerful deity is an uneducated, brainwashed fool who can't think for themselves. So, apparently, what do I know? Nothing.
However, I think that many people, even on this site, would agree that at least time to time I make good points.
By the way, I really do enjoy this site. I love a good debate as much as the next person. Too bad you constantly have to attempt lower your competition by harassing them. Such a pity.
"I disagree with you on this point, matt. Were you ever afraid of a monster in your closet, or under the bed?"
ReplyDeleteSo i am solely responsible for the notion of monsters? or is it something i have picked up? Does a baby lay there at night thinking about the monster in their closet? No, They don't, And neither would anybody else unless the idea had been suggested to them.
This is the point i am making. these notions have to be suggested. they don't manifest on their own. They are suggested by people who know it is untrue to people who know no better.
No, They don't
ReplyDeletehow do you know?? Do you remember laying in a crib for the first 3 months of you life?
So i am solely responsible for the notion of monsters? or is it something i have picked up?
They are suggested by people who know it is untrue to people who know no better.
So your parents told you about a monster in your closet? I don't think so. So you must have made them up by yourself, seeing a sweater on the ground and thinking it was a monster crawling to get you.
Another thing about this, the default state is agnostic, if it is no belief at all. Babies don't go pondering the universe. Whether or not there is a god, they don't care, they don't want to be bothered, they just want to play with their blocks.
d
ReplyDeleteAnother thing about this, the default state is agnostic, if it is no belief at all.
This is true exceptyou are describing atheism, not agnosticism. For the umpteenth time, theism deals with belief, gnosticism deals with knowledge.
As I child I worried about monsters because there was a real monster who came into my room at night and raped me from time to time.
I was also terrified of the devil that my parents told me about. I had constant nightmares about him carrying me away to hell.
I have to say, I was never afraid of monsters until I knew what they were. And yes, I have an excellent memory. I think most children get exposed to the idea of monsters when Halloween comes around. If you think about it, Halloween is maybe not a very psychologically healthy holiday...
ReplyDeleteI didn't accept religion as a child because I had somehow developed the idea that the use of violence signified stupidity and manipulation. This was not taught to me-- in fact, I "disowned" my parents as a child because they fought with each frequently and I couldn't regard them as a source of trustworthy information.
Being taken to church and seeing some guy nailed to a cross... hearing stories of God doing this and that horrible thing... I would stand up on the pews and ask my mom in shock, "Mom!! Why did God do that???" And I was told to be quiet. Something was fishy. Around this time, my father offered me a biblical coloring book, which I refused to accept. I was an atheist before I had made it out of preschool. Thanks, Lutherans!
What is of note here is the lack of trust in my parents... if I had trusted them, maybe they would have been able to brainwash me. They got my sister, though. I remain the only atheist and vegan in the family.
For the umpteenth time, theism deals with belief
ReplyDeleteexactly. They aren't sure what they believe in. that's what i was saying. that's why its atheism.
As I child I worried about monsters because there was a real monster who came into my room at night and raped me from time to time.
that is just horrible.
I was also terrified of the devil that my parents told me about. I had constant nightmares about him carrying me away to hell.
because you were told about him. kids have nightmares no matter what they are told.
I think most children get exposed to the idea of monsters when Halloween comes around. If you think about it, Halloween is maybe not a very psychologically healthy holiday...
It prolly isn't. I don't care though. I love it. I wonder if it has anything to do with me being born on it... But that's besides the point. I would like to see some research on this idea. Could be interesting...
What is of note here is the lack of trust in my parents... if I had trusted them, maybe they would have been able to brainwash me.
why do you always call it brainwashing? brainwashed people don't have a way out. I always had a way out. I oftentimes believed that there was no god. However, I always came back to it. Besides, sometimes its a nice place to pick up chicks ;)
Also, isn't telling your children there is no god brainwashing them as well? Or is it not because it is the 'truth.'
D,
ReplyDeleteThe few atheist parents I know. Don't tell their kids their is no god, but rather teach them critical thinking skills and allow them to make the choice for themselves.
On the subject of indoctrination: the Jesuits have a saying:
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man."
They understood very early that the formative years of a childs life greatly shaped the person they were to become.
While it maybe a childhood tendency to create monsters, figments of the imagination it is religions that take advantage of this and give you a structure.
The few atheist parents I know. Don't tell their kids their is no god, but rather teach them critical thinking skills and allow them to make the choice for themselves.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. So they don't teach them either side of the argument, or do they teach them both? If their child asks about religion or god, what would they say??
While it maybe a childhood tendency to create monsters, figments of the imagination it is religions that take advantage of this and give you a structure.
They tell you it because they believe it is true. You believe in evolution, I assume, and do you teach kids that? Yes. Because you believe it to be a fact. I do as well, mind you, but I am just saying this as an example.
D,
ReplyDeleteI enjoy Halloween too, but it sure is a lot less scary now! Women tend to wear some pretty nice costumes.
"I oftentimes believed that there was no god. However, I always came back to it. Besides, sometimes its a nice place to pick up chicks ;)"
All of my friends were religious when I was growing up. I have to say, hanging out at Baptist youth groups and Mormon dances, I did meet some gorgeous girls. I found the Mormon girls to be typically more intellectual and interesting than the Baptist girls, although that observation is of course limited to my experiences. The Catholic girls I dated were also fascinating. I guess the Baptist girls are on the bottom of the list for me. None of them minded that I was an atheist, except a few of the Mormon girls who wanted a long term commitment (eternity)... and 13 children. I'm so glad I got to know them while they were young and hot and before they became baby making machines.
"Also, isn't telling your children there is no god brainwashing them as well? Or is it not because it is the 'truth.'"
I don't have kids and don't plan on it, but I have educated myself on the matter and, being someone who believes in the use of rational thought, I think the best thing for kids is to learn how to decide for themselves by thinking critically. Most atheists do not teach their children there is no god. The best thing is to teach them about all the gods and the history behind them. Then, we need to be there to support them and answer any questions they have. Whatever they believe from that point on, at least they have a realistic world view rather than a single, isolated belief system hammered into their minds. Mormon children, for example, are expected to testify at the age of 8 that they know the book of Mormon is "true". Brainwashing. You always have a way out, but the chances vary for each person.
That is something I do not agree with, though. I hate the fact that religions brainwash and use scare tactics. I feel the Catholic Church does it less now, but it still was stupid that they did it. I mean, at that age, you don't know enough to proclaim something as true.
ReplyDeleteThat whole girl this was a joke, and I am Catholic for the record.
Yep, I agree with you on that. 8 years old is not an age to be completely certain about things.
ReplyDeleteAnd the meeting girls thing... you know it's true! It is such a great place to meet girls! You are such a player! And you know it. Breaking girls' hearts all over the place.
And the meeting girls thing... you know it's true! It is such a great place to meet girls! You are such a player! And you know it. Breaking girls' hearts all over the place.
ReplyDeleteha ha ha. Totally. I'm such an asshole, all I do is break people's hearts and try to brainwash them, ha ha ha.
d
ReplyDeleteI was catholic for the record :)
The Atheist parents I know, tell their children about other cultures/religions and the associated histories, teach them critical thinking skills and allow them to attend churches/religious events - and while I imagine they would be disappointed if their children were o become theists or deists they would not disown them.
And just because parents believe what they are telling their children doesn't mean it isn't brainwashing.
Yes I accept the theory of evolution being the best theory (currently) for describing our current state. This is based on mountains of scientific evidence whereas the teachings of the church are derived from one ancient text written down from the mouths of illiterate fisherman and goat herders who had less education than an 8 year old.
The catholics aren't the worst at it either, they just have a more refined model.
Karen said: I had constant nightmares about him carrying me away to hell.
ReplyDeletethen d said : because you were told about him.
Exactly. And kids believe in god because they are toldabout it. It is not natural, or the default position, to believe, as you stated earlier.ecyfqba
and while I imagine they would be disappointed if their children were o become theists or deists they would not disown them.
ReplyDeleteI would hope they wouldn't disown them.
This is based on mountains of scientific evidence whereas the teachings of the church are derived from one ancient text written down from the mouths of illiterate fisherman and goat herders who had less education than an 8 year old.
I do agree with you. There is no physical proof of God, and it does seem far fetched. I dunno, I just believe and I feel that science and religion can coexist peacefully and maybe help to explain each other better. Maybe I am just a hopeless romantic. Who knows? Not me.
Exactly. And kids believe in god because they are toldabout it. It is not natural, or the default position, to believe, as you stated earlier.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that was a mistype. I meant to say that you have nightmares no matter what you are told. Your parents used scare tactics on you, which I do not agree with, and that was the problem. They should have focused on Jesus first then when you were older and more mature talked to you about satan. However, you should always have a way out and I don't mean to say only tell your kids about this and brainwash them. If they want to learn, teach them.